Upcoming emissions workshop with CA ARB - 04/17/2017

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Political Action' started by mbrick, Mar 22, 2017.

Added to Calendar: 04/17/17
  1. mbrick

    mbrick Orange

    Location:
    MTV, CA
    Name:
    Mike
    This has been ongoing for some time now.... they were dyno testing a range of green sticker and red sticker bikes, stock and modified to determine if the red sticker program was effective. Last I heard (well over a year ago) they ran into some trouble testing something on the 2T bikes and then went radio silent.

    Well, they may finally have something. My hope was they would kill the red sticker but it may end up going the other direction based on the last sentence here.

    -----
    The purpose of this workshop is to share significant findings
    from ARB’s Red Sticker assessment, including emissions testing,
    an analysis of California’s OHRV population, and an off-highway
    motorcycle owner survey. Staff will present their findings and
    begin discussing how these findings may impact the future of the
    Red Sticker program. Staff will also discuss how significant
    emissions reductions are needed from both OHRVs and on-road
    motorcycles in order to achieve ambient air quality standards in
    California and to satisfy commitments outlined in the State
    Implementation Plan.

    The workshop will be held concurrently in two locations, linked
    via video conference, with ARB staff present at both locations.

    Date:
    April 18, 2017

    Time:
    10:00 am to 12:00 pm

    Locations:
    Northern California – ARB Depot Park Offices at 8340 Ferguson
    Ave., Rm. 111, Sacramento, CA 95828

    Southern California – ARB Haagen Smit Laboratory at 9528 Telstar
    Ave., Rm. 107, El Monte, CA 91731

    Follow the link for more information:
    http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/offroad/orrec/ohrv_notice_2017.pdf
     
  2. Andy

    Andy Wheelie for Safety

    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    Name:
    Andy
    What we need to do is eliminate the ARB and their waste of California resources. Smog inspection of cars also need to be eliminated.
     
    AndyH and Brian300 like this.
  3. tootall424

    tootall424 Team Hammered

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Name:
    Terra
    Why?
     
  4. Andy

    Andy Wheelie for Safety

    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    Name:
    Andy
    Because there's already federal agency that deal with smog, no need to duplicate it in California.
     
  5. mbrick

    mbrick Orange

    Location:
    MTV, CA
    Name:
    Mike
    My car which passed the roller dyno with flying colors, did not have a catalytic that was speciflcally on the ARB's approved list. Therefore I had to buy and install a replacement to pass visual. The smog test in general is a joke, and then you have 80's Benz and truck/semi's rolling coal all day long.

    The requirement in our state (and the US) is the opposite of Europe and anti-diesel for passenger vehicles. All lobbyists.

    Don't even get me started about how changing most things on an EFI car that still has a cat does not actually matter. Red sticker bikes is just another example, only in California...

    Agreed, it's just extra government bureaucracy. Not saying the EPA is much better (they aren't).
     
  6. tootall424

    tootall424 Team Hammered

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Name:
    Terra
    Is smog different in Bozeman MT than in Pasadena CA? How about the number of cars registered in Oswego County NY compared to Alameda County CA?
     
  7. Andy

    Andy Wheelie for Safety

    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    Name:
    Andy
    Indeed it is. But automobile manufacturers should only need to meet federal emission standards, not a federal one and another one special for California.
     
  8. mbrick

    mbrick Orange

    Location:
    MTV, CA
    Name:
    Mike
    The requirement is but the cars are not. Even in CA the test is different in some places, by zip. Different cars are not sold in each testing area.

    New cars from either Bozeman, MT or Pasadena, CA meet and pass CA smog requirements, so what's your point?
    One federally mandated check/test should be enough.
     
  9. Brewster

    Brewster Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Hayward
    My point of view is that air quality attainment is now based much more on geographic location than on vehicle emissions.

    Ride on
    Brewster
     
  10. tootall424

    tootall424 Team Hammered

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Name:
    Terra
    Until the federal mandate meets or exceeds the CA mandate we need a mandate in CA.
     
  11. mbrick

    mbrick Orange

    Location:
    MTV, CA
    Name:
    Mike
    Why is the federal mandate not good enough? Are you saying every other state has excessive pollution?
     
  12. mbrick

    mbrick Orange

    Location:
    MTV, CA
    Name:
    Mike
    Link to the slides: https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/offroad/orrec/redstickerworkshop_april2017_final_print.pdf

    The recommendation:
    Phase I: Sunset Red Sticker Program
     Establish date to end the Red Sticker program  Establish date to end riding restrictions

    Phase II: Adopt New Emissions Standards
     Tighten emissions standards
     Incentivize zero emission technologies


    Now I don't know if that means current red sticker models will no longer be sold, or what... but I like the idea of my red sticker becoming open season for current bikes.
    I also don't know if the state will follow the recommendation.


    This is also an interesting point. I'm sure behind the scenes they know on-road registration at minimum of ~$130/year now is much more lucrative?
    • Alleviates riders concerns over trail fragmentation
       Allows OHVs that meet safety requirements to be registered on-road
     
  13. suzbandit987

    suzbandit987 Stop stalking me

    Location:
    DroopyVille, CA
    Name:
    J
    Yeah, none of this sounds good for OHVs especially red sticker.

    I always question, where do these numbers come from. When I say numbers, I mean (in this case) this number of 80%. We need (apparently) an 80% reduction in smog forming emissions by 2031 (specifically in the south coast.) Where does this number of 80% come from? I would expect they used some sort of forecasting calculation against recent smog data. I just hope "they" go back and re-plot past predictions against what really happened, to sort of correct for future predictions.

    In MN, after 20 years they realized that the smog program only allowed the air quality to achieve what it would've "naturally achieved", if there were no smog program in the first place. So they ended the smog program completely.
     
  14. mbrick

    mbrick Orange

    Location:
    MTV, CA
    Name:
    Mike
    I'll tell you where they come from -- a politician who has never ridden a motorcycle and may not even drive themselves to work.

    Going back and re-plotting past predictions could damage the narrative and would also require accountability.
     
  15. Tim

    Tim 2016 BMW S1000RR 2013 BMW R1200GSA

    New cars are now considered 50 state legal. You will never get CA to give up
    a good revenue stream :2cents
     
  16. eroseme

    eroseme Orange is the new Red

    Location:
    South Placer County
    Name:
    Eric
    I disagree with Andy - Southbay air quality is significantly better now than in the 60s and 70s (outta my ass eyeball assessment). But if CARB is not going to regulate leaf blowers, lawnmowers, weed whackers, chainsaws, then they have no business regulating dirt bikes. Dirt bike emissions are a cover for anti-OHV policies.
     
    KTMrc and mbrick like this.
  17. suzbandit987

    suzbandit987 Stop stalking me

    Location:
    DroopyVille, CA
    Name:
    J
    I got into a heated email argument with some manager at CARB about 3 years ago. I emailed in through their website and was surprised when they replied to me. I specifically "spoke" to this person about leaf-blowers, but we also spoke about everything eroseme mentioned, plus marine engines, stationary engines, etc. CARB is aware of all these other polluters and they claim it is on their agenda to get to them, but you the the squeaky whee gets...what? Of course there is absolutely a revenue aspect to all of this.
     
  18. suzbandit987

    suzbandit987 Stop stalking me

    Location:
    DroopyVille, CA
    Name:
    J
    I hear ya, but I am assuming the politician relies on a scientist who makes the predictions. Now though I question, who is this scientist and what is their agenda?
     
  19. Andy

    Andy Wheelie for Safety

    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    Name:
    Andy
    Indeed air quality is 100 times better now than in the 70's. But back then the federal emission standards were not yet developed. Now that we have excellent federal emission standards, CARB should be eliminated because it's no longer required.
     
  20. Brewster

    Brewster Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Hayward
    I attended the meeting in Sac. It looks like new 2 strokes will have to meet much more stringent emission numbers some time in the future or not be sold in CA. CARB also wants to tighten up the emission standards for future 4 stokes, dirt and street. They do realize that they will have to be very gradual in the implementation of any new emission standards.
    Here is a link to todays presentation material:
    https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/offroa...inal_print.pdf

    Ride on
    Brewster
    CORVA
     
    Rex likes this.
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